I’ve also been taught to avoid metal-on-metal contact on rap rings, for the same reason why setting up a top-rope on rings is a bad idea. The idea, the argument goes, is to minimize wear and tear, which leads to failure.

I’ve always tried to follow these rules when setting up anchors, even if it means dealing with lockers on small bolts…which makes cleaning a major PITA. Also, I have repeatedly seen others do otherwise. So I have the same question Pete has…

I think it goes beyond wear and tear even… metal grinding on metal could create little spurs in the rap rings that could tear the sheath off a rope. Or maybe that’s just a spooky story told round the climbing campfire.

yup. i have this old draw, the end that I clip into bolts feels sharp when you run your finger over it. but i am not sure if it will ever get sharp enough to tear the sheath of a rope tho.

I suppose the metal-on-mental thing is also why they say to always use the same end of the draw for clipping into bolts

Metal-to-metal should be avoided at anchors wherever there are burr-related scarring or load torqueing issues. There are places where metal-to-metal at certain anchor points is acceptable, and more points (clipping bolts during the climb) where metal-to-metal is the rule.

As Miguel suggests, the main reason quickdraw biners are usually assymetrical (color coded, straight gate/bent gate, etc…) is so the climber can choose a biner-to-bolt biner leaving the other biner as a metal virgin. The roughness that results from metal-to-metal contact on the inner rim of the bolting biner can wear into the sheath of your lead rope. How much? It depends on the sharpness of the bolts you clip into (something you cannot control) and how much you fall, hangdog and swing on it.

But that example also illustrates that the metal-to-metal rule has practical exceptions. Rings and quick-links at the top of a sport route are, after all, metal-to-metal and climbers connect their metal gear to them all the time. Clipping to bolt hangers, on the other hand, might be worth avoiding. Note: they are (usually) not shock-loading these parts and they should not be top roping thru them.

Clipping into the rap rings is perfectly fine and acceptable. However, clipping into the hangers is not the best option as it can put unnecessary torque and twisting force on the hangers…more so with multiple biners in one hanger. This is why you will see bolts and hangers that are loose and spin. The rap rings pivot and allow freedom of movement, which eliminates torque on the hangers, not to mention providing ample room for multiple biners and threading the rope. Plus, by clipping into the hangers you can create significant wear over time on your biners which could damage your rope.

Concerning metal on metal, in situations where you are not shock loading the metal on metal connection, (such as in aid climbing where a carabiner is clipped to another carabiner) there is nothing wrong with it. A smooth carabiner on a smooth rap ring should not create metal burrs at all, or at least ones that would slice a rope in half while rapping.

The sheath tearing on a rope would only happen if you were being LOWERED through rap rings which were trashed. This should never be an issue, because first: You should only RAP off of rap rings, never lower and Second: A quick inspection should let you know whether the rings are sketchy or not. Additionally, lowering on rap rings will prematurely wear the rings out, which sucks for everyone. If you are lowering you should always be going through your own biners (preferably lockers). As far as rapping, the rope does not move and it is extremely unlikely that the sheath would tear on the rings. A quick look at the condition of the rings should let you know if they pose a threat for rapping. Obviously, you should never thread the rope through the hangers. These DO pose a risk of slicing your rope even if it is not moving.

So for cleaning a route and rapping down, take a look at the rap rings. If they look good (not worn or sharp) then they are good to be clipped into. Also, if the rings are connected to the hangers by chain links, make sure you look at the integrity of each link before clipping into the rings.

Hopefully this helps.

I have three rules while climbing in order of importance 1. be safe and survive by any means necessary 2. leave the permanent gear as you found it 3. leave the rock as you found it

I would first go through the hangers myself. Their primary function is to be hung on. Besides there shouldn’t be a log of weight or moving around when setting up for the rap down and also we use them all the time for top ropes which put a lot more stress on them.

That being said i’d refer you to rule 1. If my hanger is full or i just don’t want to remove one quickdraw and be temporarily hanging by one point of contact i’ll use any good solution that presents itself. rap rings are designed to support body weight so as long as i don’t go taking a fall, and i don’t know why you would, it is fine.

The arguement about biner burr’s boils down to what tom, if that’s really his real name, said. Always use the same end of the draw to not put the wear on your rope. Cut through the sheath and that’s the end of a rope. The best way to avoid this is to have a dedicated set of rap biners. They only see body weight and are not jostled around very much because you are hanging on them, also replace your gear when you feel it is getting burrs in it, i’d rather have to replace my $15 biner than to force someone to rebolt a toprope setup.

I personally have never heard of this rule. I think what the people at Muir are trying to convey is to reduce wear on anchors and kudos to them. I’ve been down there when they’ve been working (replacing bolts and anchors, putting up new routes, managing, land, etc.)

I would follow the ethics of the climbing area. If Muir asks you not to clip the anchors with biners while you’re cleaning, then don’t. It’s a simple enough request.

IMHO, it takes a lot of torquing, friction, and heat to cause burrs. Are you swinging back and forth on the anchors, causing the biners to rub against the rap rings? I never lower on anchors unless it’s an emergency; always repel. However, I see nothing wrong with clipping your quickdraws into the rap rings of an anchor.

Okay, I had a chance to actually read this tutorial and I concur with it without reservation—the Metal-on-Metal issue notwithstanding (in other words, Pete, don’t sweat it; it’s sound!). I also applaud the work as really useful to preserving the anchors at the Red from the wear the sand in ropes causes when climbers are lowered off the permanent gear!

There are, however, 2 things that I noticed in it that are unclear and may lead to some confusion/error: (CONFUSION) ONE is in Step 14 where they say “Hold onto the short end of the rope that you were pulling through in the previous step, and untie and unclip the overhand knot.” That confused the hell me! I thought they were talking about the overhand on a bight that was just tied on the end of the rope after the climber just threaded it thru the rings—that was the last thing done in the previous step. It would sure seem dumb to untie THAT knot—especially immediately after you had tied it to keep it from pulling thru the rings! What they mean (of course) is unclip and untie (in THAT order, not “untie and unclip” which is the wrong/impossible order) the OTHER overhand on a bight that is linking the 20 feet of rope you pulled up to your legloop (so you don’t lose the rope you need to rappel off of). (ERROR) TWO is the climber pictured momentarily sets up his ATC rappel with the brake ends of the rope shooting out the TOPS of their ATC slots, not the bottoms of those slots. That is a minor mistake, but one that needlessly complicates any belay/rappel by unnecessarily twisting the belay loop. I cringe whenever I see stuff like that!

Thanks for posting that walkthrough Pete, it is a good compliment to what Tom just showed the lead class regarding anchor cleaning and generated some good discussion that answered a lot of questions I previously had.

Step 14 had confused the hell out of me too, so cheers for clearing that up tom. I had assumed that is what they intended but the last thing anyone wants is a newbie assuming anything while untying x feet off the deck.