This is definitely the urban climber’s dream. My guess is that the issues are space and cost. You need a large amount of space to have a decent climbing facility and that would be prime real estate ($$) to find that in a convenient location in the city. I’ve heard that climbing gyms just don’t make that big of profit margins, so it would be tough to earn the revenue to support the needed space in the city.

I’m sure its possible and would love to see it happen, though.

It’s easy to imagine—and many have—a standalone climbing gym in Chicago. But the economics are challenging. Prime real estate in Chicago is very very expensive!

Expanding off a multifaceted fitness facility seems to be a reasonable proposition, particularly where a sound climbing program is already developed and can sustain significant growth. I’ve lobbied for investment in a simultaneous vertical and horizontal expansion of the FFC-Old Town facility—because I believe it could become the type of place Jon and others feel Chicago needs. I think (but don’t really “know”) that the return on investment would be favorable within 4 to 5 years—which is the necessary framework for investors. All to no avail.

In the meantime I’ll say this: Climbers here have some pretty decent alternatives to the bigger standalone walls you’d find in the burbs. No, none of the urban alternatives has it all, but they all have something that appeals to the individual climber or a type of climber. Many of the climbers in Chicago would like it all. But most of the climbers don’t need it all and are really having a great time where they go. And if they need to, they mix it up, and that mostly satisfies the desire.

And thanks, Jon!

when i think of “standalone climbing facility” (and i have been quite a lot lately!) i think of the larger gyms elsewhere (boulder, san francisco bay area, salt lake city, washington dc/baltimore metro, vancouver) that have larger & expansive walls. both climbing and bouldering space. solid routesetting programs (full-time paid routesetters). space to hang out. and they’re the hubs of the local climbing communities.

in the last 10 years, i’ve known really strong and motivated climbers who are also good/solid businessmen that had business plans of their own. still no climbing gym.

i’ve found what could be a perfect space with great location. it’s in the right area for the target demographic i’ve identified. 60-70’ walls. i’ve thought up what kind of amenities i would provide. what kind of programs i’d put into place. wall design of a quality to host National-level competitions. thought up how i’d have to staff it and what qualifications i’d require of hte staff. figured out what other offerings would be ‘added value’ and be worthwhile. the problem? it’d take 8-figures of investment capital to acquire, restore, renovate, and build the gym.

okay, aside from this “perfect” space i think it could be done…but i think still to a tune of a million dollars or so. _{(that would count the purchase of the land to build the gym on. 1, it’s a capital investment that the corp would still have even if the gym went under. 2, it’d suck to build out a gym only to not be able to renew the lease after 5 years or so. 3, most buildings/land that could accommodate a gym are still in use with no end in sight; solution is to build your own building on acquired land)}

no one wants to invest that much and “never” see their investment back, let alone lack of a return on investment.

if i win a large lottery, i’ll build one. otherwise, it’s a pipedream.

nueroshock, I don’t know who isn’t paying their routesetters out there. Pay might be money, but it can come in other forms. Routesetters at FFC-Old Town get free membership for a few reliable hours per week, generally setting routes that they themselves would enjoy, and otherwise setting routes that present stepped-up challenges to less accomplished climbers. There is a real value in such a trade-off, especially if the routesetter wants to climb a lot and use the gym’s facilities. If the routesetter is motivated to be creative, to be sociable, and to improve their climbing abilities thru their routesetting and use of the gym it all works out toward mutual benefits. My guess is most of the gyms are doing something like that.

Full Time Paid Routesetting is something that would only be feasible in the context of a huge complex—and one where good routesetting is valued (not all huge complexes really value the quality of routes because they can draw climbers with their high ceilings). And a fun job it would be!

I suppose that’s what I was getting at. When I think of paid routesetters, I’m thinking of a earned living wage plus the free access/membership. Maybe even a couple of guest passes a month on top of that. In exchange, the setter would put in ‘x’ hours a week of setting for all levels. Not just routes or styles they like so much as quality all-around routesetting. When I look at facilities to climb at, it’s not the height or amenities that draw me. Take away the free towels, shorten the wall, whatever. It’s the routes that I’m there to climb that gives it value.

I’m not talking about us amateurs that set a problem here ‘n there, nor those that put in a couple/few hours a week. I’m taking about recruiting/cultivating people who set so well that they’re worth paying both money and a membership to set.

In my ‘pipedream’ I envisioned 15-20 topropes at 50-70’ in height plus bouldering space. I’d want/need someone setting full-time to keep things going. As a “volunteer” basis it simply wouldn’t work.

With the type of large and active facility you (neuroshock) have dreamed about, paying ($) your routesetter(s) would make sense, especially if you could count on them to deliver quality routes.

Consistently good routesetting is hard to teach. I’ve tried, and have been trying to teach it, for 6 years. My teaching skills are pretty good. But I don’t always succeed and no longer expect to always succeed. When one of my routesetters goes from Apprentice to Master (and I feel there is an objective criteria to measure mastery by) I feel I can take credit for just 5 to 10 % of that success. Same for when the effort fails.

Good routesetters are hard to come by, and they should be valued—at least in a climbing gym that places a premium value on good routes (which is not all). Theirs is a skill that comes mostly from innate understanding and a passion for the form. And that it just where good routesetting begins. It also requires a deep understanding and appreciation of technique and a sharp awareness of what skills one can expect from climbers at different stages in their development.